Kevin Kisner: PGA TOUR Player & Broadcaster

KEVIN KISNER: What I think is one of the greatest characteristics about a golf course, and I tell this to people all the time because my home course is this, is if you hit every club in your bag. There's 14 clubs. If I play 18 holes, and I pretty much got every club in the bag dirty, I think it's a great test of golf.

MASON REED: I'm Mason Reed, and this is Invested in the Game, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each episode, we tell the story of remarkable people who have committed their time, resources, and emotional energy into making golf the wonderful—and sometimes maddening—game that it is.

Hello, Invested in The Game listeners. We've got a fun one for you today. On today's episode we're speaking with Kevin Kisner. You probably already know Kevin if you are a golf fan; but if you don't, he's a 20-year veteran of the PGA TOUR and has quickly and quite successfully transitioned into the role of golf broadcaster and lead analyst on NBC and podcaster with Barstool Sports. During his golf career, Kiz was beloved for his grit and competitiveness on the course, but also for his personality off the course. The internet is littered with his hilarious quotes, one-liners, and press conference quips.

We here at Schwab first met Kevin when we took over the PGA TOUR event at Colonial Country Club. Kiz was the defending champion and came back to see his name placed forever on their Wall of Champions at the time we had just signed a deal to sponsor the event. At that time, eight years ago, I found him to be exactly the same as his reputation for being an affable, friendly guy. All of which is to say, he's authentic, in a sports world that often lacks that.

I talked to Kiz about that very thing: how hard it is to be yourself in a world that scrutinizes every word you say. We also talk about his transition to broadcasting and his return this week to the event he won eight years ago, the Charles Schwab Challenge.

Hope you enjoy the conversation with Kevin as much as I did.

Kevin Kisner, welcome to Invested in the Game. Thanks for being here.

KEVIN: Thanks, Mason. I appreciate you having me. Hope all is well.

MASON: All is great.

I'm going to have to work really hard here to focus our conversation because I could talk to you for hours, but you don't have hours. You know, we've learned from our listeners, they have about a 30- to 40-minute attention span for these topics. So we'll keep it pretty tight. I want to talk to you about what you're doing today, which is a lot of different things, and also about Colonial, Charles Schwab Challenge, coming up right around the corner, which you're playing in, which is exciting. But I want to go backwards for just a little bit and talk about your introduction to the game. What are some of your very first memories of golf and how you got introduced to it?

KEVIN: Well, there's pictures of me that my mother shows where I'm in the backyard in only a diaper swinging the plastic clubs, hitting golf balls, running around the yard.

At an early age, we moved to a golf course where everyone, all they did in the summer was go to the golf course. They had a pool and tennis courts, and we could charge all the food we wanted on our parents' tabs. So every morning you woke up, everybody … I lived on seven. I played seven, eight, and nine to the clubhouse. And then I ordered chicken fingers and sweet teas and took my bathing suit. And if we didn't want to play golf, we went to the pool. They also had a really cool par-3 course that we could just play all day long. And that's what we did for fun all summer long was just hanging out at the golf course, gambling on, you know, "If I beat you on this chip shot, you owe me a Coke or a Snickers." And then it turned into, I'm betting the older guys at the club a dollar on up and downs. And I think that's what really helped me in the game is learning at an early age that every shot meant something and to be focused on every shot because it can be a choice of winning or losing.

MASON: Were those early days things you were doing with your family or were you just there on your own with your buddies, like kids from the neighborhood?

KEVIN: Oh, just kids from the neighborhood. No, my brother's seven years older than me. My sister's nine years older than me. So I didn't really have siblings that hung out with me. They wanted me to leave them alone. And I had tons of kids my age. It was a great neighborhood to grow up in, where a lot of young families had moved to it. A lot of the dads and moms worked during the summer, so we all went to the golf course, and it was kind of like a family of employees up there. We had a great pro named Jackie Seawell, whose son's the coach at Alabama now—the golf coach at Alabama, Jay. So we had a big family that just kind of took care of all the juniors. The junior program was a big part of their life, was trying to develop players, teaching young kids how to play the game. And it was instrumental in my career.

MASON: When did you start to realize that you were either good or that maybe you were better than some of the other kids? When did it start to sink in that you might be good at this thing?

KEVIN: Well, I always played with the older guys. I gravitated to the guys that were two or three, four years older than me because it felt like it was more competition for me to try to beat them. And we also had a great group of kids that all played Division I golf. I bet we had 10 to 12 guys within a 10-year span that played Division I golf. So the competition level was very high. And I knew that guys that I had played against, or competed against, that were older than me, that were getting these college offers, that I was as good as. And then obviously playing in tournaments throughout the summer, competing against your peers and winning golf tournaments—that shows you that there's no other sport in the world that you can instantly show you immediately if you're as good as you think you are than golf. And that's what I love about the game.

MASON: What kind of age are we talking about? Did this start happening when you were eight, nine, 10, or was it a little bit more into your teens? When did it start to click?

KEVIN: No, I was playing tournaments as early as eight, nine, and 10, just at the state level. Nothing … you know, I didn't ever get into the big national, flying all over the country. My dad always was pretty adamant about it. We had a great junior program in South Carolina. You'd know, a lot of the guys from South Carolina played on the tour. So if you could beat all those guys, he said every college coach in the country will find you if you're good enough. It all matters what number you put in that box, and these guys will find you if you're shooting the numbers. So we didn't spend a ton of time traveling all over the country. We just stayed in the Carolinas basically and had a great competition here.

MASON: And you eventually landed at Georgia, and your team was stacked. I think you won the national championship there near the end of your time. Several of the guys went on the PGA TOUR. So even just playing, I'm assuming even just getting on that team alone was a major accomplishment at that level. That was not a fluky thing. Those are stacked teams back, you know, 20ish years ago.

KEVIN: Yeah, for sure. I didn't even know where Athens was when they started recruiting me. So to find out it was only a couple hours from the house, had a great facility, obviously a prestigious program. I started in 2002, and they'd won the national championship in '99. So they were a hot team in the country. I love the coaching staff. I love the facility. I love the campus. And I also wanted guys that I was playing against currently in high school to go to college with me because I wanted to have a great team, and I wanted to compete against those guys. So Brendon Todd and Chris Kirk came in the year after me, and then Brian Harman came in my senior year. And we just had a great collection of guys, and I loved the way our coach did it. It was always competing. All we did was qualify, which is all you do in golf from every level from day one until the very end. You got to qualify to compete, and all those qualifying rounds, I think, helped make what Georgia golf is today on the PGA TOUR.

MASON: So for people who are listening who may not be familiar with that, that means if the Georgia golf team is going to a tournament, there is no guaranteed slot for Kevin Kisner or Brendon Todd. You play that week to qualify to be part of the, what was it, five or six people that are there?

KEVIN: Five guys, yeah.

MASON: Yeah.

And so you're already in the meritocracy mode, and you're already basically having to grind it out before you even show up at a college event.

KEVIN: Yeah, and I love that because there's other schools that were recruiting around the—"You come to, you know, wherever. You can have a spot in the first tournament, or you can play in the fall"—and Georgia wasn't that way. It was, "You earn your spot. Everybody's up for grabs every week. Everybody on the team can play. We take the best five from qualifying, and you prove yourself every week." And that's the way he did it all the way through until the spring when we got close to the SEC Championship and the regionals and all that. And then he would look at the production across the entire year and say, "These are the five guys I'm going with. We're sticking … the team's set, and this is who we're traveling with for the rest of the year."

MASON: And so you have this good career at Georgia, including winning a national championship, and you did not just walk off that campus and become an absolute star on the PGA TOUR like a few guys have or do today. Your journey was a little bit different. There's some mini tours. There's some going up, coming back down, going to Q-School. Can you talk a little bit about that? It sounds like you were pretty well positioned to deal with that, having done all the stuff when you're a kid and then what you just were talking about with Georgia. But can you talk a little bit about the transition from going to that quality in that team to then trying to make the PGA TOUR? And if you don't mind, let me ask you one other question—did you have your mind set on that? Were you're like, "I am going to play on the PGA TOUR. That is my destiny?"

KEVIN: No, I never really did. And to be honest, I probably played the best college golf my freshman year compared to all four years. I really got off to a great start my freshman year, played solid all year. And then as college comes around and you … chasing girls and staying out late and hanging out and doing all the things that college kids do, my golf game gradually declined throughout the four years. And when I got done, I didn't feel like I was in a spot good enough to make the PGA TOUR. I felt like my game's declining. I don't feel confident enough to go straight to the tour.

And I really came back home and sat down and talked to my dad and went to work for him for about a month. He owned a residential construction company. And after about three weeks of that, I realized, "I better go back to the driving range. This is just terrible. The real world stinks. I'd rather go practice and hit golf balls."

So I was fortunate enough to start out on the mini tours, which I think was a huge positive for my entire career. And I won the third tournament playing for my own money. And if I wouldn't have won early on, I probably would not have kept going because I wouldn't have had the financial backing to continue. So I was proud of the fact that I spent my own money and played throughout my entire career on my own money and was able to kind of gradually climb up to the top. Each year I got better. Each year I had more experience. I went from each level, getting higher up in the game and ultimately getting to pretty much the top, other than … you know, I never got to number one in the world or anything, but I played in 40-something straight majors and was top 50 in the world for six or seven years.

So it was a really good, successful career that I'm proud of. And I love the way that I did it. I love that I worked hard, did it on my own and continued to climb. And even when I got knocked down, like you talked about—losing my card, going back to tour school, and then I would get it back and go back to the tour with more experience, more confidence, because I'd done it before. And that's so beneficial to the game and the career. And ultimately, I think that's what proved that … to allow me to have the success that I did.

MASON: So some people have called you like a quote, unquote "player's player." I think I know what that means. I assume it means a bit of the grind and the journey, and nothing's been handed to you, but I don't want to answer that for you. Do you agree with that, and how would you define that? And I'm sure it's related to what you were just talking about.

KEVIN: Yeah, I would say if you asked me what that meant, and I'm not sure what it is, but I would say that people respected my game because I didn't have anything that was super flashy. I wasn't long. I didn't particularly hit every shot like I wanted to, but I found a way to get the ball in the hole. That was my test and my game was my grit. I never wanted to give up. No matter where the ball was, I wanted to figure out the best way to make the lowest score, and I wanted to beat people. That's ultimately why I played the game. I enjoyed the competition. I enjoyed beating people. And I think that's why I was so successful in match play is mano-a-mano, I just loved being the annoying guy that maybe wasn't the flashiest or prettiest player in the world. But you look up, and, "Man, Kiz beat me again. How did he do that?" That's what I really enjoyed.

MASON: I was going to ask that a few questions from now, but since you brought it up, I will talk about it a little bit now. I hope I'm in the right neighborhood. You're probably about mid-280s off the tee, 280 yards-ish, somewhere in that neighborhood, which had you been playing on the PGA TOUR in like 1992 or 1995 would have been pretty darn good—right up there with John Daly. A little bit tougher in the more modern era, but that's not that short. But you're not known for that. I think that that number probably puts you somewhere probably near 150 or 200 these days in driving. It's really far down there.

Do you think that there's still a role for course management, grit, accuracy, putting—some of the things you were known for—in today's game? In other words, have we overblown this thing that it's all about driving? Or what's your take on that in the modern game?

KEVIN: Well, I think driving is such a key aspect to it. The driving distance, you just can't make that up over four days in putting. It just continues to wear on the guy because you're just not going to be able to make every eight- to 10-footer all week long. But you can always drive at 350, unless you're hurt. And that is what is so hard over the course of four days is, a guy that hits a 350, even if he's not hitting the fairway, and I'm hitting the fairway 280, he's gaining about half a stroke a hole on me just from the distance factor and being closer to the hole. So I think the modern game is totally about speed and distance. And every kid I try to talk to that asked me, I just tell them to hit it hard, and we'll figure out how to hit it straight later.

MASON: Do you like that that's what it is, or not really?

KEVIN: Well, I'm never going to be against people becoming better athletes and figuring out technology and learning about the game and understanding stats and analytics and how to be better at their craft. I'm never going to hate on that just because I might be not able to do it. I'm not going to say the game stinks now. I think it's cool. It's just a different way than the way I was taught to play. I never once in my life was told to try to hit it as hard as I could. And if I grew up in the 2000s, that's all I would have been told—"Who cares what it looks like. Hit it far, and we'll figure it out." I was always told, "Slow and steady, keep it on plane, stay in balance, you know, good footwork," all the things that we now know don't really matter. So it's just a different way of doing it, and I'm never going to be a hater on that. The guys still have to chip and putt, but the thing is, technology has gotten better in that. So guys … there's all these new methods on reading greens, and there's all these new methods on putting, different styles of putting, different grips of putting—and you just didn't see that when I grew up. Everybody pretty much putted conventional, and everybody had to use their own eyes to figure out how to putt. So there's just … I'm never going to hate on the technology advances. It's just a change. It's just like any other business, like your business. And we got to adapt and grow and figure it out. And you've got to figure out your niche of how you're going to compete.

MASON: Do you think you were part of the last era that could compete with your distance? Were you part of the transition where you could still be top 40 all those years, you could have a 20-year career? If you were coming up right now with that distance, do you think it would be impossible to have the career you had?

KEVIN: You would have to be really, really, really elite at every facet of the game with my speed to continue to have a 20-year career in the top 40 in the world. I don't think it's going to be nearly as possible. I don't see any … you know, I'm like a 165 to 168 ball-speed guy, and I don't … when they have Trackman flashes up on every Sunday, if I watch golf, I don't see any guy on tour hitting a driver at that speed anymore. That's more of like a common 3-wood these days, and it's just what it is. You know, the equipment's better, guys are better athletes, and guys are taught way differently than they were when I grew up.

MASON: I would love to spend more time on your career, but I do want to talk about the transition. You have a lot going on now with podcasts, with broadcasting. And you had an awesome career. I mean, you went through some of the statistics—four wins, tens of millions of dollars on the course.

When did you start thinking that maybe, I don't want to say the career was in the back part of it, or that you were interested in broadcasting, when did you start changing your mindset a little bit?

KEVIN: Well, the broadcasting part, I had no inkling that I would ever do that. That was just a total "on a whim." The producer at NBC asked me to fill in for a little bit because he needed some help, and he didn't know a direction they were going. And I was already going to Hawaii where they needed some help. So it made sense to go try it out. I thought it was fun. No idea that would end up, that I would eventually get the seat.

But the golf side, I just started playing poorly, wasn't having nearly as much fun, and my family quit traveling. I have three children, and at some point, I was like, "You know, I'm out here playing, thinking about how I don't want to be here, instead of how I want to beat these guys." And at that point it's like, I'm not doing myself or the game justice by having that mindset while I'm in wherever, Lexington, Kentucky, or Fort Worth, Texas, or wherever on a Friday afternoon, trying to grind to make the cut. If I'm not enjoying that, that's what I grew up enjoying. That's what I played my whole career enjoying. The whole point of playing is getting through those moments, and it's succeeding and having success and putting the work in to do it. And I wasn't doing myself justice if I didn't have the mindset ready to do that. And I thought some time away would make it really want me to come back, but I just don't want to go out there and practice for eight hours a day anymore. And that's what you have to do to compete is you got to put all your effort into it. It's just like any other job. I tell people all the time, it's a get up and grind and work on it, you know, 50, 60, 70 hours a week playing golf, working out, getting treatment, recovering, taking care of your body. And you know, at this point in life, me staying in a random hotel in a town by myself, while my kids are playing whatever sport they're playing, and my wife's having to video and send it to me is just not where I wanted to be in my life. And I'm fortunate enough that I didn't have to do that anymore.

MASON: So it wasn't so much a marker that you said, "If this happens, I'm not …" It was like, it's like the love of it was dropping, family's going up, and it's … the calculus isn't working anymore for you?

KEVIN: Well, I think if I was continuing to play at the level that I was top 40 in the world, and I was playing all the majors, and I was still competing and winning golf tournaments—I haven't won since 2021—that's almost five years now, coming up in August. So those are the things I played for is I want to play against the best. I want to compete against the best. And if I'm not at a level in my game where I felt like I could compete at the best, then those make the weeks even harder.

You know, what I think's incredible is what Brandt Snedeker did this weekend at his age, 45, still putting the work in and coming back and having the will to want to win. And I think that is incredible and a huge testament to his entire work over his career. I just take my hat off to him.

MASON: Speaking to that … actually, let me ask you about broadcasting.

They said, "Jump in here, maybe do an event here or there, maybe one." Were they like, "You're good at this, man?" Like, did they tell you almost immediately that they thought this could be something that would be more than just a one- or two-time thing?

KEVIN: Well, the first week, I don't think I had a clue what I was doing. I was just … you know, it's basically feeling like I was in first grade, and they were just teeing every answer up for me. Everyone that was in the production was making the broadcast as easy as possible for me. They were just trying to put it on my plate and hand it to me.

I think I did two tournaments for them. And after I did the two, they called me after the second one and said, "Look, we really like the work you did. We're going to try out a few guys at this, but we really want you to do the Players Championship." And I thought, "Well, if you want me to do the Players, you must like what I'm doing." And they're like, "Yeah, we do, we like it, and we want to see what you do across more time at a bigger tournament." And so I did the Players Championship, and that led to … they wanted me to do some … maybe the U.S. Open and some of the playoff events that year, which I don't think I could do the U.S. Open that year.

And those talks kind of led to, "Hey, we'd like to come down and talk to you." And I was still playing full time. And I just basically told them, "You know, I don't have any interest in doing both full-time, where I'm doing both broadcasting and playing." I said, "If you want me to be your broadcaster, then you're going to have to wait till I decide if I'm going to play a full season first." So we did that through that season, and I filled in as I could.

And then after that season, they flew to Aiken, you know, the president of NBC Sports and our executive producer, and we had long talks about the direction, where we wanted to go, what they wanted out of me. And we had just a great conversation, and they've been the ultimate partner from the get-go. They just … whatever I needed, however I wanted to do it, they were willing to work with me. And I just love our relationship and then how it's grown since then. Now I feel like that's probably my number one job in the … what I do now. And it's just funny how it's kind of transpired over the course of the last three years where I went from, "Hey, I'm just the idiot redneck over here, calling a couple of tournaments for you," to now, I'm involved in wanting to help make the product better. So it's a really cool deal, and I just appreciate how much NBC was willing to work with me throughout the last few years to get to this point.

MASON: I had a couple of questions on this, but I wanted to point out, I think our very first guest on this was Dottie Pepper. And we talked a little bit about how difficult broadcasting is because almost nobody understands how hard it is to produce a golf tournament—not just to capture it with cameras all over the place, but the concurrent action, and someone's in your ear. I don't even know how you still figure out how to do it where someone's talking into your ear and telling you something, and you have to comment on it.

So have you started to get the hang of it? Have they stopped having to tee everything up for you with these softballs and underhand pitches? Do you think you got it now?

KEVIN: Well, you learn that you are starting to figure it out when they put more on your plate—when they suddenly, in your ear, go, "All right, Kiz, take us to commercial in 12, 11, ..." And I'm like, "Whoa, what, do what? I don't know how to do that." So you know, they are always testing you to see what you can and can't do. And I love that.

One of the best stories early on, after maybe five or six tournaments, I asked for kind of a review. I said, "Hey, what do I need to do better at? How can I get better at this? I've never done this. I never went to broadcast school or journalism school, so I just need help." And my producer said, "Well, at the end …" I think Mike Tirico told me … Mike Tirico is a dear friend and an awesome mentor. I ask him for help all the time. And they both said, "You know, at the end of your thought, you always trail off, and we need you to act like you're talking louder to the person in the back of the room at the end of your thought. You got to have a lot of energy as you talk." And I said, "Well, my mom raised me that when other people are talking to be quiet, and every time I'm ending a thought, somebody's in my ear yelling about where we're going next. So my brain immediately goes to 'shut off.'" And he goes, "OK, I got it. I'll quit telling them while you're still talking." I said, "That'd be great if we could do that."

MASON: Haha, that is like multitasking on another level. We all do it in our lives, one way or another. You're talking to your wife and you're doing something over here. But somebody talking into an earpiece while you have to be thinking sounds almost impossible.

I wanted to ask you this because I've always wondered this across all sports—why is it so hard for professional athletes to just walk away? Tom Brady's won everything, and he's won Super Bowls, and he's sitting and grinding in a booth being a broadcaster, which is not easy when you have kids. It's not easy on travel. It's all these things. And he certainly doesn't need money. And we don't have to pick Tom Brady, but why do you think it's hard for professional athletes to just say, "This has been fun, I'm walking away. It was nice knowing you?"

KEVIN: I think our brains are wired to always be doing something because that's just how we were successful is time management. We were never going to waste, never going to lay on the couch on a Friday when it's 75, knowing that the people I'm trying to beat are out there practicing. I'm going out there and doing something. I'm not just going to sit around and do nothing, even though I may not have to practice every day. I'm going to figure out something else that I'm going to spend time on because I want to work, and that's what I did my entire career.

You still want to be relevant in the game that you love and you played. That's what I think is so huge about all these ex-athletes that get into media is they want to be a part of the game. They want to help the game. They want to be around the guys that are still playing. They want to understand what's going on. They want to, in my view, I want to be a part of all the cup teams and, you know, represent our country well. And you just can't do that if you say, "All right, peace out. I'm going to Aiken, South Carolina, and you'll never hear from me again." Nobody's going to call you to do any of that stuff. So what am I going to do on a Wednesday in May if my kids are at school and I'm not playing golf anymore, you know, there's no hunting season going on. I might as well just sit on the couch and become lethargic. So I enjoy always trying to figure out what I'm going to do next. And if I had to wake up and nothing on my schedule, I wouldn't know what to do.

MASON: But you come across as everything seems easy to you—the way you talk, your personality. But have you brought the same mentality that you had at like peak professional golf career to broadcasting, and for that matter, to podcasts and everything else, being a part of the cup captain's teams? Do you just take it from one place and move it to the other and say, "I'm going to do that over here. I'm going to put that energy in these other places?"

KEVIN: Totally. I don't know exactly how I work as hard as I did at golf on the broadcast because I'm never going to be the guy that goes back and watches to see what I did well and how I … I just don't like watching myself. I don't really like going back and listening to myself. I don't do a podcast and then listen to it. I just wait for the others that are in it to help me understand. I rely on the team at NBC, and I rely on the team at Barstool to … "Hey, what am I doing well?" You know, I think it's a great way to do it. Every three months, "Hey, what am I doing well? What do I need to improve on? How can I get better?" Seems like a great way to do it. I did that with my golf career. I always brought my coach and my caddy and my short-game coach and anyone else on my team. And we always sat down and I'm like, "Hey, no offense here. Tell me what the real truth is, and I'll tell you exactly how I feel," which was always easy for me to do and not so easy for others. And I thought it was a great way to do it because your peers are what show you, you know … if they're actually real with you, that's who knows and is going to be honest with you the most.

And I think the broadcast side … the golf side is pretty easy because all the courses I've played, I still know most of the guys very well. So I can use past stories or things I know about them on the air to engage the audience. As that changes, if I'm fortunate enough to do this for another 10 or 15 years, I'm going to have to spend a lot more time getting to know the guys. So I can come up with … you know, Mason, if you're sitting at home and the guy that won this weekend—I don't know at all, Reitan from Norway—so if I was covering that weekend, I would have to be out on the range, watching his entire warmup, talking to his coach, talking to his caddie, calling his parents, finding out stories that I can relay that the world can see and understand so we can paint the picture of exactly who he is. And there's so much time on the air as a person's winning that we have to fill, that those stories are awesome to be able to bring to the table. So I see myself having to do more work on the broadcast side as the years progress.

On the podcast side, I still don't know what the heck I'm doing there. I just … I tell a bunch of stories.

MASON: I find that hard to believe.

I did want to ask you, did you think that something was missing in the broadcast world that makes it possible for you or Smylie or some other folks that was maybe missing a little bit of unfiltered comments or was missing a little bit of personality? Was there a gap that was timed well for you to do something like this?

KEVIN: The only thing that I ever think in the broadcast that I can add is I'm going to be myself at all times. I'm not going to tell you what every golf talk person says. I'm not just going to give you the golf talk because everyone else before me did it. I just want people to say, "Hey, I know Kiz. That's exactly who Kiz is sitting in that seat talking right now, as if he was sitting in my club, watching the golf with me, having a beer after a round." So as long as I can be myself.

And then to the players—this is what I told all the players when I started. I said, "There's not one time that I will ever forego our relationship as friends by putting something on the air that you don't trust me with, so you got to know that I always have your back first, but I'm going to try to portray to the world exactly who you are—and that's what my job is, but I'll never, never break this trust."

MASON: It sounds like being authentic, which I think was also a hallmark of your, you know, all the playing career years—which is still going by the way, we're going to talk about Colonial in a second—but for all those years of just being authentic and calling it as you see it, have you struggled at all with the different environments you find yourself in and really being able to be a hundred percent authentic? Like, you're on a Charles Schwab podcast right now, you're on NBC, you're on Barstool, you probably … social media. Are you literally the same exact across all of them, or do you have to watch what you say? Do you have to be careful with your filter a little bit in certain places?

KEVIN: Well, obviously on network TV, you've got to have a filter, right? I can't run around saying the F-word or cussing or making off-color jokes on air on network TV—where on a podcast, there's pretty much no rules, right? And then one of the things that I've already found in 2026 is trying to walk the line between being myself, telling awesome stories, things that I probably couldn't say on NBC, but also not making anybody at NBC say, "Why are you talking about that …"

MASON: Haha, right.

KEVIN: " … on your podcast?" So obviously, I think that's probably a tough line to walk, but I'm learning, every time I do, it of better ways to handle that and be myself on both sides. There's just no way that you could put me on network TV and say, "Kiz, have three beers and be yourself, man." I mean, I would be fired within 30 minutes.

MASON: What could possibly go wrong, right?

KEVIN: Yeah, exactly. So I mean, people understand that. But I try to be the professional Kevin Kisner that I can be and also give people the insight of exactly who I am and why I think I'm built for this seat and how I can showcase golf in the best way because of my experience and because of my knowledge of the players, the golf courses, and also the competition. I think it helps that the guys that are talking about what the guys are going through was just recently in the fire, right? Like, I was winning golf tournaments a few years ago, and I was still playing—and I think people respect that aspect of it.

MASON: I know they do. I also think that, as a sort of a golf sicko and someone who watches a lot of these things, I think that level of authenticity, for various reasons, just sometimes gets stripped out of all sports, you know? I think that the … kind of get the same canned answers. You get the same things. And once in a while, something comes along and just can call it a little bit more as they see it. And as a viewer, it's appreciated, which I think probably has led to some of your success.

Speaking of success, you are returning to one of the places you won, in a couple of weeks here in Fort Worth, to the Charles Schwab Challenge at Colonial.

When we signed on to sponsor the tournament, a few of us went up and met you the day they put you on the wall. You had won the year before when it was the Dean & DeLuca, and then we signed on—and there was a bridge year in there where it was Fort Worth, or something, Challenge or whatever. But anyway, we've been there for about seven or eight years now. Could you talk a little bit about Colonial and your experiences there as a venue and as a tournament? It's one of the only ones still run by its members, I think the only one if you don't count Augusta. So it's a different vibe there than it is at a lot of other places. Can you talk a little bit about it and your experiences there, and then also talk about what you think it takes to win at Colonial, since you've done that?

KEVIN: Well, there's a lot there. I could go on forever. I think the golf tournament at Colonial is my favorite golf tournament on the PGA TOUR. And you nailed it, because the members are the ones that run it. And so they actually have stake in it. They care. They want you to be there. They want you to enjoy their club. They want you to come act like it's your club. They treat you like you're a member for the week, and they want you to come back, and they want you to love their golf course, and they'll do anything for you. The hospitality is off the charts.

Obviously, with you guys being the title sponsor now, I think it's just a perfect mix between the two because your customers are the same way, and your C-suite staff and everyone there that I've done tent visits with, everyone just feels like we're having a good time. We're all in this together. We know what the end game is. We want to have a great golf tournament on a great iconic golf course with the best players on the PGA TOUR, but we want everyone to feel welcome.

I think Fort Worth's a cool town where it's a lot like South Carolina. I think the people are a lot like South Carolina. The hospitality is great. The food's great. There's plenty to do for families. And it just feels like you're at home. I don't know how else to describe it. It feels like every person I walk through in the locker room is always, "Can I help you? What can I get for you? I'm glad you're here." You know, all your guys, all the Schwab team is there. You come through the player dining, you want to talk to people. I think that is just what makes the PGA TOUR great. And I think that's what makes the PGA golf tournament there at Colonial so great.

Obviously, I love the golf course. I think it's fantastic. It's one of the few left that I feel like I can compete on at my length because it's not necessarily how far you hit it. It's more precision and putting the ball in the right spot. Now there are guys that can overpower it just on angles and distance. But you know, at end of the day, it's all about getting the ball in the hole, and around there, you can do it a bunch of different ways, which is so cool to me. Even though they've changed it since I won, I still don't think they've lost the character of that being the number one key around there. It's just shot placement, shot shape, where you're going to play off the tee, if you're going to be super aggressive, if you're going to lay back. It's a short-game golf course around it, 'cause the greens are small. If you get out of play, you can get it around the green from almost everywhere. And if you can get it up and down, you can still compete because there's birdie holes out there.

And I just love the entire experience. I love all the staff. I love the staff of the club. I love all the members. And I just can't wait to get back out there in a couple of weeks.

MASON: Well, I remember one of the things you said that stuck with me when we met when you were getting your name on the wall there, and you said, "You guys just got a really good golf tournament." And I was thinking, "You didn't have to say that." Like we already signed the deal. And we didn't know yet what you just said, which we obviously know now. It's a wonderful golf event in a great city.

Yes, you can win with distance. We had Jason Kokrak win it, who hit it a mile. We've had Kevin Na win it. We've had you win it. So I mean, everybody. Is it fair to say that's a little bit like Sawgrass, or maybe there's some other courses, you know, where you have to hit lots of shots, and it's just whoever's making all the shots that week? Because like Sawgrass, you almost won that in 2015. Rory's won it. I mean, all over the place. Is that a similar comp of like the kind of course that would allow different types of players to win and not just an archetype of like big bomber, gouging wedges, etc., etc.?

KEVIN: Yeah, I think you nailed it. It's a great, similar golf course, from a strategy standpoint, as TPC Sawgrass. It's not always just how far you can hit it. It's placing it around the golf course, placing it in the right angles. Pete Dye does a wonderful job at creating angles off the tee where it makes you feel like there's no room to hit it. But he wants you to challenge the more difficult side. I love that about Pete Dye and TPC.

What I think is one of the greatest characteristics about a golf course, and I tell this to people all the time because my home course is this, is if you hit every club in your bag. There's 14 clubs. If I play 18 holes, and I pretty much got every club in the bag dirty, I think it's a great test of golf. And there's so many golf courses where you never see a 9-iron or wedge or a sand wedge. You know, it's driver, 6-iron, driver, 7-iron, driver, 6-iron. Every par 3 is a 4-, 5- or 6-iron. And I get done, I'm like, "Man, I never hit my 9-iron, my pitching wedge, my 5-wood, my 4-iron." But at Colonial, you hit every club. There's just a wide array of shots, and you get done, and you feel like you wiped every club off when you got done. And I think that's a true test of the game.

MASON: That's great.

All right, we're going to switch gears and finish up here with just a couple of questions about the future.

You said if you could stick around for 15 or 20 years doing broadcasting, you may have to do a little more homework on some of the newer players you don't know quite as well. Is that kind of your goal right now? Do you want to stick around as long as you're relevant and as long as they'll have you and all those things? Are you liking it? Are you happy? Are you loving life, loving the game?

KEVIN: Well, yeah, I'm fortunate enough that, you know, there are so many changes that are probably happening in the future and even happened this year. You know, Golf Channel and NBC split. I'm an NBC employee, so I only work Saturdays and Sundays. That makes for pretty easy travel when you're only doing nine or 10 events a year, flying out on Thursday or Friday and coming back either Sunday night or Monday. That's completely different than anything I've ever done. It doesn't feel taxing. It's not a big strain on my family that I'm gone 25 nights a year compared to 250 that I was for 15 years. But you don't even know. We have new media rights coming up in the next couple of years, the PGA TOUR does. Who knows who's going to get it. If NBC gets it, and they want me to continue to do it, I would love to continue to do it. I like the work, I enjoy the team, I enjoy the people that I do it with, and I enjoy being a part of the game. But for me to say I'm going to do it for 15 years, I think there are so many changes inevitably in the future that it's hard to forecast that. But who knows what happens. And if NBC continues to want me, and NBC continues to showcase the PGA TOUR on a great platform that I think we do, then I … heck yeah, I want to continue to do it.

MASON: Last question, and I'd like to ask everybody this, just to end on a little bit of a positive, optimistic note.

When you think about golf on any level—could be kids, amateurs, pro, golf courses, anything—what's something in the game right now, in any part of the game, that gives you hope or optimism or positivity about the future when you think about where golf is going?

KEVIN: I see more kids playing the game than I have in the last 10 or 15 years. I see interest at a younger age and kids being outside. I think one of the biggest downfalls in our society is going to be devices and screen time. And you get out on the golf course, and you see these kids out there just running around outside, that's what I did. I didn't have a cell phone to look at or an iPad to watch.

Just here in my hometown, every day after school, about 3:30, I look up and six, eight, 10, 12 kids are walking down the hill carrying their clubs. And it warms my heart because I haven't seen that for the last 10 or 12 years. I don't know why it's changed. I can't put my finger on it, but the interest has definitely piqued. And I don't know if it's YouTube golf, and kids really are into YouTube, and they can go home at night and see all these different content creators doing crazy stuff on golf. There's so many more avenues to golf than just going to the PGA TOUR or playing that way. I think there's a lot more directions they can go in the game now. And I think that just overall is going to help the entire game.

MASON: Man, I couldn't agree with you more.

I, this past weekend, took my son out. He's 11. We played 18. He asked if we could do an E9. At the end of that, he said, "Can we play more?" I was like, "We have to leave." And when we left, he said, "I have not been on my device. I haven't been on my iPad for however long that was, eight hours." And I said, "Thank goodness."

KEVIN: Yeah, exactly.

MASON: I have done something positive as a parent today. But yeah, I love that. Thanks for that thought.

All right, man. Thank you for your time, and best of luck at the Charles Schwab Challenge. We'll see you at Colonial in a couple of weeks here, and good luck with everything you're doing. I'm just excited for you. You're somebody that is, I think, beloved in the game. I'm not just saying that to butter you up. I think that there's a reason that people are enjoying listening to you on podcasts and listening to you on air, and please keep doing that for us.

KEVIN: I appreciate it. Hopefully we can play in a pro-am together so I can film your game and make fun of you.

MASON: Shoot. You know what? We can make that happen. Be careful what you wish for.

KEVIN: Haha.

MASON: All right, Kevin, thanks for being on Invested in the Game.

KEVIN: All right. Thanks, Mason.

MASON: So that's it for us today. Look for Kevin calling golf on NBC, listen to him on the Fore Play podcast, and follow him on Instagram @kevin_kisner, or just Google his name, and all his channels will pop up.

For all of Schwab's golf content, including our films, tournament news, and promotions, check out Schwabgolf.com. If you've enjoyed the show, which we hope you did, we'd be really grateful if you'd leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or feedback wherever you listen.

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